Top Excuses Used By Sellers Of Defective Cars - Podcast

"SteveLehto" (stevelehto) 03/24/2016 at 09:00 • Filed to: None

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Over the last 24 years of representing people who have bought defective cars, I have heard every justification possible for why my clients have no right to be upset. Some excuses are absurd but that doesn’t stop sellers from using them.

I do a lot of lemon law cases and you’d think that was pretty straight forward, right? The vehicle has been in for repair X number of times and still isn’t fixed? How hard can this be?

Along the way I have also handled a few claims involving other kinds of automobile sales and have heard ever excuse imaginable. The remarkable thing is that some of the crazier ones have been raised more than once. How many times can defense attorneys tell me that my client is suffering from “buyer’s remorse,” and not simply pissed off because the car keeps breaking down?

Kick back and listen (or watch) the nonsense you may hear if you ever complain about a defective car you’ve bought.

Here is this week’s audio:

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

And the video:

And the vehicle at the top? I’m sure it ran when parked . . .

Follow me on Twitter: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

Hear my podcast on iTunes: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

Steve Lehto has been practicing law for 24 years, almost exclusively in consumer protection and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! He wrote !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! .

This website may supply general information about the law but it is for informational purposes only. This does not create an attorney-client relationship and is not meant to constitute legal advice, so the good news is we’re not billing you by the hour for reading this. The bad news is that you shouldn’t act upon any of the information without consulting a qualified professional attorney who will, probably, bill you by the hour.

emilminty drives an E30 but the '89 Cavalier blew a head gasket > SteveLehto 03/24/2016 at 09:36

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“That was done by our corporate predecessor, and we have no remaining liability as a result of the bankruptcy proceeding.”

Not what you meant?

SteveLehto > emilminty drives an E30 but the '89 Cavalier blew a head gasket 03/24/2016 at 09:38

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Haven’t heard that one. I did hear: “We have no liability for any car built before X due to the bankruptcy ruling.” Strangely, NO cars I ever saw were built before that date.

My X-type is too a real Jaguar > SteveLehto 03/24/2016 at 09:41

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Is it bad I want to rescue that Cadillac in your picture.

SteveLehto > My X-type is too a real Jaguar 03/24/2016 at 09:44

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Not at all. Pics like that are click bait to many of us. I found that by the side of the road, slowly sinking . . .

Declan Hackett > SteveLehto 03/24/2016 at 10:00

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So if the little old lady had to park the Caddy there, how did she get home from church that Sunday?

SteveLehto > Declan Hackett 03/24/2016 at 10:03

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She only drove to church on Easter and Christmas. She walked to church on the other occasions.

MrBlah > SteveLehto 03/24/2016 at 10:03

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I wish there were cliffs for these, no audio here

Angelix > SteveLehto 03/24/2016 at 10:04

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“and have heard ever excuse imaginable.”
The amount of writers here who refuse to proofread is incredible.

SteveLehto > MrBlah 03/24/2016 at 10:06

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I don’t think I ever wrote this one up either. Not so much law; just funny stories.

Umrguy42: Add $5 for shipping and handling > SteveLehto 03/24/2016 at 10:07

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Weirdest thing I ever saw on the side of the road was (is?) still somewhere in mid-MO on US-63 (I drove that a lot, going between my university and my now-wife’s). Anyway, picture somebody taking a VW microbus (or very similar, if not actually a VW), chopping out the middle third, and putting the front and back halfs back together, then setting it out near the edge of their property off the road. I always wanted to stop and take a picture, but never could. And GIS has let me down trying to find it. (I suspect it’s between Jefferson City and Columbia, on the west side of the highway, but it’s been too long to be sure. Fairly certain it’s *not* north of Columbia, cuz I still do that trip every year from the in-laws’ to my folks’.)

SteveLehto > Angelix 03/24/2016 at 10:08

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And the number of commenters who look silly is likewise high.

It is not an “amount” of writers. It is the “number” of writers, since “writers” are measured in discrete numbers. Not amount.

450X_FTW > SteveLehto 03/24/2016 at 10:12

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1) Put FOR SALE on car

2) Put ad that lists “perfect fixer upper”

3) big payday

Angelix > SteveLehto 03/24/2016 at 10:13

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At least you proofread the comment before posting this time.
You’re welcome for the constructive criticism.

SteveLehto > Angelix 03/24/2016 at 10:15

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And you missed the point. You are guilty of something but worried about someone else’s transgression.

Unspiek Baron Bodissey > SteveLehto 03/24/2016 at 10:15

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Touché!

Mike > Angelix 03/24/2016 at 10:18

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Angelix > SteveLehto 03/24/2016 at 10:18

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Yeah, worried about a post from a journalist. One who posts things for all of the readers to see. If you’re so sensitive about your work, you shouldn’t be on the internet or maybe you could just do your job and use spell check next time. Again, no thanks required.

jimz > SteveLehto 03/24/2016 at 10:20

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I hate it when you talk about local dealers/shops which have/had some egregious conduct. I know you aren’t going to name names, but my brain is all “I MUST KNOW WHO HE’S TALKING ABOUT!!”

SteveLehto > Angelix 03/24/2016 at 10:21

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I just read a few of your other comments, and you clearly are borderline illiterate. Be that as it may, “spell check” would not have caught “ever” vs “every.” I know you don’t know that (since you don’t use it - as evidenced in your other comments). But the point is - criticizing other people while making the same mistakes yourself just makes you look silly.

And I am not a “journalist.” Never said I was.

SteveLehto > jimz 03/24/2016 at 10:22

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But, as I noted, they got a new service manager and solved the problem. But the name of the dealer rhymed with “Shark Mickey.”

jimz > Angelix 03/24/2016 at 10:25

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“ first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.”

- Matthew 7:5

mazdaspeeder > Angelix 03/24/2016 at 10:26

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Spell check wouldn’t have caught the error because “ever” is a word.

Congratulations, you found a missing “y”. It’s not so much that you pointed out the error, which is totally fine. I’m sure Steve appreciated that, as any writer would. It’s that you took the opportunity to mock someone you’ve never met for a small mistake. I could be wrong, but I don’t think that’s considered “constructive criticism.”

theCHEESE25 > SteveLehto 03/24/2016 at 10:26

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“That’s what his argument was before he lost.” SO. SATISFYING.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Angelix 03/24/2016 at 10:41

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Cute burner, but middle schoolers are rarely a source of actual constructive criticism (look up that term BTW, pointing out a very minor grammar error isn’t constructive, it’s pedantic)

Wil Haginen > SteveLehto 03/24/2016 at 10:49

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Does the high-volume dealership that “created a lot of lemons” you mention rhyme with Bell Mar?

nafsucof > SteveLehto 03/24/2016 at 10:49

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I think you should compile this info and make a car buying, owning and selling for dummies book! It’d probably make you richer! Love these, thanks!

SteveLehto > Wil Haginen 03/24/2016 at 10:50

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No, but I had problems with them. Once sat face to face with Mel Farr Jr and had an entertaining conversation I’ll write about some time.

This one rhymed with Shark Mickey.

haveacarortwoorthree2 > SteveLehto 03/24/2016 at 10:52

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“And I am not a ‘journalist.’ Never said I was.” Even worse, you are a lawyer! :)

SteveLehto > haveacarortwoorthree2 03/24/2016 at 10:54

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I’ve begun dismissing his comments. He really is too dense to understand why he looks so silly.

OldManMcKenna > SteveLehto 03/24/2016 at 10:55

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I’d caution you not to feed the trolls, but you probably already know that.

I don’t think the OP professes to be the worlds greatest writer. But they’re also not paid to produce content. I think that’s what they’re going on about.

FWIW if you check my personal Kinja history, I’m at about a 4th grade reading level and I still find mistakes and point them out.

SteveLehto > OldManMcKenna 03/24/2016 at 11:02

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Who’s paid to produce content on Oppo?

It’s one thing to point out a mistake that matters - a minor typo is silly. But he has to blow it out of proportion “You REFUSE to use spellcheck!” And it does add a sense of comedy when his post contains a larger error than mine (I’ll take a typo any day over a grammatical error. Mine was a missed keystroke - his was a misuse of the language).

But, I can feed them for a bit and then begin dismissing them. They go away eventually.

But why would anyone bother pointing out typos (of the sort that spellcheck does not catch)? I see typos in major national print magazines. So what?

Wil Haginen > SteveLehto 03/24/2016 at 11:02

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It’s been just about a decade now since I’ve been in my home state of Michigan, so I know who you’re referring to by Shark Mickey, but at the same time, my brain is foggy and can’t recall the precise name. Ah well!

Thanks for these podcasts, by the way, I’m a huge fan. I wish I had discovered these series on how to handle recalls and dealers back when I had my VW.

Just as an aside, I’m currently trying to return to Michigan and the automotive industry (oil and gas had its boom, and now it’s time to go home). If I should ever succumb to the siren’s call of VW again, you’ll be my go-to guy.

OldManMcKenna > SteveLehto 03/24/2016 at 11:10

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Pointing out where others went wrong is literally the only thing that brings joy to my otherwise miserable existence. I couldn’t tell you what right looks like, but boy can I get my panties in a wad when something is wrong.

Sarcasm aside, I had no clue you weren’t somehow compensated for your work. Pro bono is the best kind of... bono. ?

EricG > SteveLehto 03/24/2016 at 11:12

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I’m actually dealing with an issue right now with my 13 MazdaSpeed3. It’s got 24000 miles on it and a couple of weeks ago I noticed the A/C wasn’t working. The fan was working but the compressor wouldn’t kick on. It took it to the dealer and they said all the freon had leaked out of it but they couldn’t find where it had leaked from. They also didn't want to give me a loaner car because to them the problem was fixed. I know freon doesn't just go away without there being a leak somewhere. My warranty runs out this summer. What should I do? As always great video and I look forward to next weeks.

SteveLehto > EricG 03/24/2016 at 11:17

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Document the repair attempt. Try another dealer?

SteveLehto > OldManMcKenna 03/24/2016 at 11:20

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Pro Bono is obviously better than Amateur Bono. Or Sonny Bono.

EricG > SteveLehto 03/24/2016 at 11:23

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Thanks. I’ll try that.

You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much > SteveLehto 03/24/2016 at 11:37

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It brings me great joy to see people argue with a lawyer. Partly because I like arguing and my buddies and I made a minor league sport of it in college. The other part is the hilarity of watching someone take on a professional in their field. It’s like a beer league hockey player going up against Datsyuk. Things are going to get lopsided.

Umrguy42: Add $5 for shipping and handling > SteveLehto 03/24/2016 at 11:39

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Ha! Finally found it with Google Street View. Outside of B&C Auto Sales near Freeburg, MO.

(I dunno, maybe it was originally that small? But the wheelbase looks like it *shouldn’t* be that short IMO.)

(Incidentally, Steve, what’s it take to be permanently un-greyed on Oppo? Just hoping that someday I could be :D)

LegsMalone > SteveLehto 03/24/2016 at 11:41

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It's way better than Sunglasses Bono.

SteveLehto > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 03/24/2016 at 11:48

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Thanks. I’ve written 15 books (and been published by 5 different publishers) and hundreds (100s - really!) of magazine articles as well. It’s amazing that someone who has no idea what I do (he thinks I am a “journalist”) will go nuts over a simple typo.

And yes, his reasoning skills are weak. He thinks that my posts are there for “all of the readers to see” but his are not? What is he - a wizard?

SteveLehto > Umrguy42: Add $5 for shipping and handling 03/24/2016 at 11:49

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The guys on Fast & Loud built one like that.

Not sure abo0ut the gray - you’re not gray on my stuff.

Peptide > Angelix 03/24/2016 at 11:56

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There are times that a typo has a negative impact on the readability or the context of the of written material; this isn’t one of those times. You’re complaint isn’t adding any value and is, at best, self-serving.

FixMaster2K1 > SteveLehto 03/24/2016 at 12:05

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Always look forward to your posts, and your comments, keep up the good work.

deekster_caddy > EricG 03/24/2016 at 12:13

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Diagnosing an AC leak is pretty straightforward. Find a new mechanic/dealer. At least you have documentation that the problem existed before your warranty ran out.

Senex Bibax > SteveLehto 03/24/2016 at 12:19

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Or Chastity

seaneboy > SteveLehto 03/24/2016 at 12:29

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Steve - Just wanted to say thanks for putting this content out there. These are awesome!

seaneboy > Angelix 03/24/2016 at 12:32

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Dude as far as online “articles” go, one typo is not a big deal. You’re just being a pedantic dick to a site contributor (not site employee/writer/editor) who is giving you content.

You’re the guy who stands in the way in the aisles of Costco taking free samples.

didyourlysaythat? > SteveLehto 03/24/2016 at 12:46

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Well, in this format pointing them out so that you can correct them does have SOME value... If you’re going to use snark and be a real dillhole about it, you should probably proofread the comment though.

I truly enjoyed your back and forth with this individual, and agree with your points.

ateamfan42 > SteveLehto 03/24/2016 at 12:49

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Great stories, as usual. Please keep them coming.

The “just keep bringing it in and we’ll keep working on it under warranty” one really gets me. The presumption that there is no harm neatly assumes the car owner’s time is worthless. Not having a functioning car to drive is rather contrary to the point of owning a car in the first place. And of course, some of us keep cars longer than the (sometimes extremely short) warranty period. If my car has a problem under warranty, I want it fixed so I can continue to use the car AFTER the warranty is up!

Steve is equipped with Electronic Fool Injection > SteveLehto 03/24/2016 at 12:49

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Apropos of nothing but your love of the Winged cars, this is sitting in the showroom at Hendrick CDJR in Concord, NC. Last year they had Hellcat #1 sitting there, too. Rick Hendrick bought it at the Barrett-Jackson Charity auction.

ateamfan42 > EricG 03/24/2016 at 12:52

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It took it to the dealer and they said all the freon had leaked out of it but they couldn’t find where it had leaked from.

This sounds like the “there’s nothing wrong with the car” excuse on Steve’s list. “We are too incompetent and/or lazy to diagnose the problem, so one must not exist.”

I’ve been genuinely shocked and amazed when dealership technicians actually worked to find the root cause of a problem rather than just trying to patch-up the primary symptom.

ateamfan42 > SteveLehto 03/24/2016 at 12:56

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Strangely, NO cars I ever saw were built before that date.

We reject your reality, and substitute our own.

Whitesmoke > SteveLehto 03/24/2016 at 13:46

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Yer ovbiously bean helld too a hiher stadnard!

jimz > SteveLehto 03/24/2016 at 13:59

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Coincidentally, I just re-watched Airplane II last night. I wonder if he ever got his briefcase back.

jimz > EricG 03/24/2016 at 14:02

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find a different dealer. They should have put a tracer dye in the system so if/when it leaks out again it’ll leave evidence. This is what the dealer did when I took in my Ranger for A/C leak, it was a pinhole in the condenser.

General Mayhem > SteveLehto 03/24/2016 at 14:16

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Trolls, they be trollin’. I wouldn’t let it bother you.

General Mayhem > SteveLehto 03/24/2016 at 14:19

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Yea, but what about U2 Bono?

SteveLehto > General Mayhem 03/24/2016 at 14:25

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Early or late?

rb1971 ARGQF+CayenneTurbo+E9+328GTS+R90S > SteveLehto 03/24/2016 at 14:37

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“Just keep brining it in and we’ll keep fixing it.”

Back in the early 90s my father bought what would be his last performance car, a Mustang GT convertible with every single option. He had been a life-long Ford guy since the 1930s and had a lot of cool stuff before the kids came along, including the first T-bird ever derived in Washington DC.

The GT had some problem in the automatic gearbox they couldn’t fix after a large number of repair attempts, and I told him he should consider using the lemon law to get a replacement, but he was friendly with the salesman and the owner and didn’t want to cause trouble.

Finally after about 18 months and well over a dozen repair attempts he asked about the lemon law. Ford sent a corporate rep to talk to him, and they said he could have any car on the lot if he wanted and use the purchase price of the Mustang as a credit. Apparently the gearbox has some known fault and simply replacing the car wouldn’t have necessarily fixed the problem. I always wondered about that.

So he ended up with a Ford Explorer since it was the nicest Ford on the lot at the time.

Womp womp.

After that all his cars were Lincolns since he wanted “better quality”. I wasn’t too sure about his reasoning but they were all actually pretty nice cars.

General Mayhem > SteveLehto 03/24/2016 at 14:43

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I’ll get back to you...

SteveLehto > General Mayhem 03/24/2016 at 14:48

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Top Bonos, Ranked:

1. Pro Bono

2. Early u2 Bono

3. Sonny Bono

4. Chastity Bono

5. Modern u2 Bono

SteveLehto > seaneboy 03/24/2016 at 14:51

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And then when he’s eaten them all, he asks if they have more. As he walks away, he bitches about how bad they were. Then he leaves the store without buying anything.

And walks home because he has no car.

SteveLehto > didyourlysaythat? 03/24/2016 at 14:52

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No one is going to go in and edit a piece after it’s been posted to fix a minor (and obvious) typo like that. If it was a major mistake, yes, point it out.

But, the real key here is try not to be a dick.

xx45xx > SteveLehto 03/24/2016 at 15:01

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curbstoning is not a scam

SteveLehto > xx45xx 03/24/2016 at 15:10

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Depends on which version of it you are talking about. It is sometimes illegal; in my book, that is a “scam.”

Blondude > Umrguy42: Add $5 for shipping and handling 03/24/2016 at 15:10

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Shorty Type 2, sandrail, Beetle...

I don’t know who this is but I like them.

xx45xx > SteveLehto 03/24/2016 at 15:31

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im just a man, i have sold few cars in my life, never by curbstoning. i just comment the same thing over and over on your posts because i am lacking normal human relationships in my life. If it makes you feel any better, you appear to be quite knowledgeable and communicate ideas and experiences easily.

ateamfan42 > OldManMcKenna 03/24/2016 at 15:58

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Pointing out where others went wrong is literally the only thing that brings joy to my otherwise miserable existence. I couldn’t tell you what right looks like, but boy can I get my panties in a wad when something is wrong.

You hit the heart of it right there. Some people can only feel good about themself by trying to make others feel like crap.

Constructive criticism would have been politely pointing out the typo. What that guy did was just hateful elitism.

Sometimes in addtion to recommending posts, I wish we could vote “thumbs down” to posts here. Ideally, if a user consistently gets lots of negative votes over time, they could be kicked off the site, since they aren’t a constructive contributor.

Maxis47 > EricG 03/24/2016 at 16:02

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I’m sorry to hear that. I’ve got a 13 MS3 too and the only problem I’ve had in 28k was a loose vacuum hose the day after I got the car home. I hope you get it sorted out soon

schwinn8 > EricG 03/24/2016 at 16:03

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I had a similar problem on a much older Mazda - the leak was found using the dye-style Freon, but the trick was (thanks to a saavy mechanic) that the rubber hoses were cracked and old, so they “filtered” the dye before it could be seen on the outside. I recommend having them flex the rubber hoses (while looking with the UV light) to see if this could be the situation on your vehicle as well - you would see the dye within the “cracks” in the rubber.

SteveLehto > xx45xx 03/24/2016 at 16:03

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You are not alone. There are two or three people who want to argue with me about curbstoning. One appeared to be an older gentleman from Texas I believe, who thought it was his baby-Jesus-given-right to evade state sales tax by title-skipping etc.

He noted that his profit margin would be destroyed if he had to follow the law. As if that was a justification.

jimz > rb1971 ARGQF+CayenneTurbo+E9+328GTS+R90S 03/24/2016 at 16:08

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the funny thing is the Explorer probably had the same transmission. I’d suspect this was a case of an incompetent service department.

jimz > SteveLehto 03/24/2016 at 16:11

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do they even exist anymore? I google them and all I get is a link to a site selling women’s wear.

SteveLehto > jimz 03/24/2016 at 16:16

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Yes. Google it with the word “west” as the third word.

Matttathome > Umrguy42: Add $5 for shipping and handling 03/24/2016 at 16:45

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I have driven by that as well! I grew up spending Christmas at my grandparents in Fayette and know the roads around that part of MO pretty well! I still have family in the area, and there is a salvage yard just on the outskirts of Fayette with a house next to it. The owner of the lot apparently super into cars made the basement specifically for car storage. He used to park his Cobra R Mustangs along the large front porch. I only say this because there are hidden treasures throughout that part of the state!.Were you lucky enough to drive the old Booneville bridge??

didyourlysaythat? > SteveLehto 03/24/2016 at 16:52

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See, I didn’t realize that so you’ve not only educated the dick today (doubtful but there can always be hope) but me as well. I figured that being a digital medium there would be some corrections post-publishing still.

Thanks for the reply, and thanks for your content, I always enjoy the stories, information and advice you share Steve!

Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. > SteveLehto 03/24/2016 at 16:59

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I hate selling stuff. Buyers can be such idiots, even when you explain what’s wrong. Years ago I got into an argument with a guy over a computer monitor I sold him because the power switch didn’t work; the monitor worked just fine. I told him this up front and explained that this is why I was giving him such a cheap price, but that didn’t stop him from coming back and asking for a refund; at no point did he ever say that I didn’t tell him. Listen - that’s all I ask...

SteveLehto > Angelix 03/24/2016 at 17:39

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Actually, the most annoying thing here is that you keep repeating the same dumb joke. (“No thanks required.”) It wasn’t funny the first time someone said it 200 years ago. Still not funny.

Evidence of a dull mind.

didyourlysaythat? > SteveLehto 03/24/2016 at 17:43

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I didn’t have a chance to listen to the full pod cast at the office. Now that I have I must come to his defence.

Mr. Lehto, clearly you can see that is was the crown of his keyboard that makes him lean toward dickish.

I rest my case

SteveLehto > didyourlysaythat? 03/24/2016 at 17:46

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I regret that I have but one start to award this post.

glemon > Steve is equipped with Electronic Fool Injection 03/24/2016 at 18:13

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Just seeing a pic of that car does something to the pleasure centers of my brain. That such a beautiful and impractical thing was built and sold as a street car, and people bought them and drove them, etc. (I remember seeing a ratty one or two parked on residential streets back in the day) makes me feel a little better about the world I live in. Thanks Mopar, Thanks Mr. Direct Fool Injection...

Steve is equipped with Electronic Fool Injection > glemon 03/24/2016 at 18:16

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Impractical it was not... Not really anyway. I mean single-digit mpg was par for the course in the 60s. Plus the wing was high enough the trunk could open fully underneath...

glemon > Steve is equipped with Electronic Fool Injection 03/24/2016 at 18:23

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I guess in terms of living with it was not much different than living with any other hi performance V-8 American car of the era. But they sure looked like they took up a lot of space when parallel parked on a residential street. Hey the aerodynamics probably meant it could hit double digit mpg on the highways, right?

RunAmock > SteveLehto 03/24/2016 at 19:24

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I am confident that the vehicle that always pulled to one side was the Ford Explorer. They were significantly left side heavy which generated a strong pull to the right.

SteveLehto > RunAmock 03/24/2016 at 20:37

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Not a Ford product, sorry.

jimz > ateamfan42 03/25/2016 at 07:08

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flagging posts will eventually get there. not that long ago I got kicked back into the grays on Jalopnik, and when I pinged the Powers That Be they said gawker had basically done a mass “banning” of users with flagged posts. capricious and arbitrary, but consider the site.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > Angelix 03/25/2016 at 08:10

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Consider the fact that Steve is an attorney and not a journalist.

And then consider the axiom of people living in glass houses...

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > SteveLehto 03/25/2016 at 08:14

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So the modern one is defined as “the point when everything Bono says turns into a PBS telethon” right?

GanjaTwista > SteveLehto 03/25/2016 at 09:13

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You are certainly my favorite Internet lawyer.

That you’re actually a member of the Michigan Bar and a true purveyor of automotive justice is like jelly beans on the icing of this legal cupcake.

SteveLehto > GanjaTwista 03/25/2016 at 09:45

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I WIN!

pauljones > Angelix 03/25/2016 at 10:05

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Conversely, if you’re so sensitive about a minor mistake from a guy who gets paid nothing to write an article that you deliberately chose to click on, perhaps you should consider different avenues for your attention. Perhaps you could write some articles of your own?

And for the record - that was not a constructive approach to criticism. A constructive approach to criticism here whould have been something more along the lines of, “Hey, I just noticed a quick detail and wanted to give you a heads up! Thanks for the article!”

Positive interaction really is that simple. Please try to keep it positive going forward.

Love,

The Mods